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Global Warming is Real
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Reply · Quote scooper 2006-04-29, 00:14 #1
User title: Pooper Scooper
Member since Apr 2006 · 62 posts · Location: United States
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Subject: Global Warming is Real
There is now plenty of evidence and plenty of consensus in the scientific community worldwide that the global climate is warming up, and that human activity -- particularly the burning of fossil fuels -- contributes to it in significant measure. Consider that the lower atmosphere of the earth has been getting measurably warmer, but that the upper atmosphere has not. This indicates that the warming is not primarly caused by the sun getting hotter.

On the other hand, Mars has been getting warmer, too. Perhaps there is some contribution to a warming climate by a warming sun.

In any case, we are called to stewardship of the only planet we live on. How should we go about [1] fostering global economic development (the only way to get people to voluntarily use birth control is for them to enjoy a standard of living in which children are a cost rather than an investment), and [2] doing it in such a way that the earth becomes more livable and enjoyable (to all its inhabitants) rather than less?

Call it Green Globalism. It's a tall order. Now, where to start?
Because there is more to Religion than pleasing your Imaginary Friend.
Reply · Quote bearcat7 2006-07-20, 10:13 #2
Member since Jul 2006 · 2 posts · Location: San Francisco, CA
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Subject: Thoughts. . .
Well, I think making a difference on what we're doing to the planet requires, first of all, an attitude shift. We're Earth's children, and if she dies, we die. It's simple if you look beyond the politics and special interest considerations. So having people get -- not just understand, but really get on a gut level -- that our lives literally depend on the well-being of the Earth, is, in my opinion, key to impacting this problem.

Now, how one might go about having people get that is an open question. My cynical side keeps saying that there will never be any change in our consumption of fossil fuels as long as one drop of oil, one cubic foot of gas, or one lump of coal remains in the ground. When it's all used up, we'll come up with new alternatives. Of course, by that time it will be long too late.

Another thought: If the above is true, then the only real answer is that we have to get off the planet. It's not hard to deduce that if we human beings are going to continue to consume and breed at our present rate -- and there is no clear sign that we are not -- then we have to get off the planet. Earth cannot continue to support our explosive breeding and ever-increasing demand for resources. So if we intend to continue living that way, we have to find other planets to support us and take some pressure off Earth.

Even this possibility, however, requires some sort of conservation and management strategy. Without a thoughtful plan for achieving an expansion into space -- where to go, how to get there, what technological developments have to happen, etc. -- plus efficient management of Earth's resources, we will never do it. Continuing at the current irresponsible (rapacious?) rate of consumption will ultimately insure that we no longer have the resources it will require to reach and colonize other planets.

I am not so arrogant as to say that I know any real answers to global warming and other threats we pose to our own world. However, I believe this is the primary spiritual question we must answer as a species. If we really are given stewardship of the Earth, we are not doing our job.
"To please himself only, the cat purrs."
-- Anonymous
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Reply · Quote scooper 2006-07-23, 23:06 #3
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Bearcat,
A counterpoint to your concerns is the idea from some of the SETI folks that an advanced civilization might consume the entire energy output of a star! In other words, it is possible that the answer might come from consuming (and generating) more energy rather than less. It just depends on how you do it.

For the nearer future however, I think your point about fossil fuels is on target. Perhaps we can sell at least Americans on the idea that Islamic Terrorism and violence are going to go on as long as Muslims are oppressed in their homelands by despotic governments upon whom the world (not the US - only about 15% of our oil comes from the Middle East) depends for fuel. And that the Freedom House index of freedom in the Middle East goes down whenever the price of oil goes up. We need to develop alternatives to burning fossil fuel (flex-fuel engines that can burn either gas or ethanol, or better yet hybrid electric flex-fuel engines). If we did it, other countries would follow suit (yes Brazil already has flex-fuel, and yes American farming interests are blocking the importation of Brazilian ethanol at this time). Heck, there is even an American guy who modifies gasoline engines to burn cooking oil!

Anyway, moving to non-fossil fuel burning cars would decrease the price of oil, which would force the governments of the Arab and Persian Middle East to turn to their populations for taxation. This would require them to turn to those populations for political support as well, which in turn would require them to develop real economies with real jobs and real futures for their peoples. That would go a long way to bringing justice to the Middle East, take a lot of attraction out of the Jihad, and put us on the prudent side of the global warming issues as well.

Just a thought.
Because there is more to Religion than pleasing your Imaginary Friend.
Reply · Quote rabiesdog 2006-07-26, 22:01 #4
Member since Apr 2006 · 2 posts · Location: Poland, Warsaw
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What is essential in todays world for a global greener economy is political will, the general population in most countries would back many initiatives from their leaders in order of making our egzistence more sustainable. Now how come those major initiatives has not yet come, i don`t want to start off with conspiracy theories a´la the grassy knoll but some larger corporations that base their industry on fossil fuels are certainly a major part of the problem. I hate to say it but most specified initiatives do not come from the masses but from leaders, they come up with something when they feel that it could improve their chance of getting reelected or are pressurered by the people on the street to do something.
JFK put up a goal for the USA to put a man on the moon before the end of a decade, the real benefits of that decision put in perspective to the costs of that program may be debatable, creating a nation that is independent of fossil fuels within  ten years is possible and a lot more important issue also the benefits are unquestionable. USA has got the best predispositions towards making it possible(financially, technologically), this migh sound like patriotic boasting but it most certainly is not, in most cases i am very critical towards The US of A(i am a pole actually and write this sitting Warsaw), it is only my perceprion of the reality, no other country in the world could on its own stand up to this challenge, aldo i would like this to be an international cooperation in restructurizing the world economy and industry towards a more ecological one but the best chance for it to become a reality is if you Yanks take the lead and pull all the other knuckleheads with you.
Ideals do not need to be defended to survive, they need to be acted upon.
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Reply · Quote scooper 2007-03-13, 22:55 #5
User title: Pooper Scooper
Member since Apr 2006 · 62 posts · Location: United States
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Subject: Or is it real?
Of course there are dissenters, increasingly silenced, on the subject of Global Warming. Have a look at this BBC documentary (warning: it's an hour and a quarter long). They contradict what I've been told by friends who are global climate modelers, particularly the bit about which part of the atmosphere is warming, and the bit about global climate models ignoring cloudiness - I've met people who've spent a good portion of their careers on cloud models. But it is a viewpoint nevertheless.

The Global Climate Swindle.
Because there is more to Religion than pleasing your Imaginary Friend.
Reply · Quote Wings 2008-03-04, 23:54 #6
Member since Mar 2008 · 9 posts
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Subject: Global Toast...
Doesn't it all begin in our own back yard ? One thing I never see mentioned is how many nukes have been tested in the atmosephere in the last 50 years ?  I saw the figure somewhere and wondered if this could have an effect on the planet that no one talks about.  But no its "my bad" if I drive a car. We had to go through all kinds of agrivation to get the county to stop spraying hurbacides just above our garden....Low income housing destroyed the garden some oldtimers grew for vegatables and to make an extra $ at the farmers market...and I live on "The Garden Isle" where the county government is busy paving over paradise  to put down a parking lot                     Big Sigh.......
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Reply · Quote scooper 2008-03-05, 19:40 #7
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Wings,
The US stopped above-ground nuclear testing in 1963, and there seem to have been no above-ground nuclear tests at all by anybody since 1980 according to this NRDC site. All the nuclear tests ever done in the world couldn't have put out enough energy to warm the globe. Indeed, scientists (like the dearly departed Carl Sagan) believe that the dust that nuclear explosions would kick up in a global thermonuclear war would cause a so-called "Nuclear Winter."

Sorry about your garden. The peril of large bureaucracies, I suppose.
Because there is more to Religion than pleasing your Imaginary Friend.
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