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What is Fundamentalism?
Religion at war with the modern world

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The last posts in this thread   (newest first, maximum 10 posts):
Charles (Guest) 2009-02-08, 09:04
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Subject: Fundamentalism and Religion
Becky, I would like to elaborate on the differences between religion and fundamentalism. To do this, I would like to start with a definition of religion: religion is the series of actions we take in our lives to understand God, to worship God, and to make us more God-like in a way that allows others to see God through us.  Religion must be practiced in community - not alone. 

Our internal relationship with God is our faith.  When you remove all the covers, each person chooses their faith based on revelation from God. Yes, this revelation can be highly distorted by the medium through which it is received; yes, we can intentionally and unintentionally distort the revelation by our own predispositions.   Each person's faith can be compared to that which is "orthodox" within any community of practicing believers.  The antithesis of this is heterodoxy.  Fundamentalism is a faith that is based on a very narrow set of revelations and a very narrow interpretation of these revelations.  So far, so good.

The risk of evil that arises in fundamentalism is that of making this particular form of worship holy instead of the God to which it points.  This then encourages the pride, anger, and moral & intellecual sloth that is so readily characitured and so very offensive to outsiders.  However, this is no different than self-justified sin based on any other rationalism.  And the sinfulness of these fundamentalist messengers of God's revelation does not change the truth of God's message.   We are all hypocrites in the eyes of God, and our offerings are but "bloody rags" in comparison to His holiness.

Assuming for the sake of discussion that I have just communicated God's truth to you, what should you do with this bit of revelation?  Forgive.  Forgive these sinners who attempt to lead you astray in their vain attempts to lead you to God.  And ask God's forgiveness for judging them any differently than you pray for God to judge yourself.
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scooper 2008-08-06, 20:57
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Well, we're getting off the topic of Fundamentalism as distinct from authentic religion. But I must say that eliminating religion will certainly not eliminate war. There were plenty of wars before religion became a major pretext for war, and there have been plenty of wars since.

As for Tom Paine, George Washington agreed with him that his high-minded philosophy was fine for some individuals, but he thought that one could not expect to maintain a nationwide civil society in the absence of religion.

Can we get back to the topic of Fundamentalism per se, or are Fundamentalism and Religion the same thing to you?
Because there is more to Religion than pleasing your Imaginary Friend.
Becky (Guest) 2008-08-06, 08:20
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Subject: Religion
IMO, as long as religions exist, there will be hate, war and division. I don't think man can put a title on faith. All we ever needed to know and practice is the Golden Rule, but the powers that be would have never been able to deceive and control mankind. Thomas Paine wrote "my religion is to do good and my mind is my church". What could be better?
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scooper 2008-08-05, 23:12
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Subject: Christianity is more than Fundamentalism
Becky,
Thanks for your vivid description of Christian Fundamentalism. I understand where you are coming from. I grew up with but not within a similar community.

But there is more to Christianity than Fundamentalism. In fact, I would go so far as to say that Fundamentalism is its own religion, and that it has invaded or colonized other religions, like Christianity and Islam. The Christianity that I know is not controlling. It is comforting and empowering. It sets the captives free.
Because there is more to Religion than pleasing your Imaginary Friend.
Becky (Guest) 2008-08-05, 13:35
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Subject: Christianity
I found this site by doing a google search for more information on Homer Smith.  I just finished 'Man and His Gods' and found it to be most excellent. I am an ex-fundamental Christian who was born and raised in Georgia. Fanatic fundamentalism is still very much alive and getting more fanatical day by day. I can speak more plainly than most of the commentors as I lived this controlling and judgmental nonsense most of my life.

This doctrine teaches that we are not to be concerned over the planet we live on because this world is ruled by the devil. We are not to seek wealth or happiness 'down here' but look forward to great rewards 'up there'. We are to rejoice any coming war because these things 'must come' before Jesus will return. At that time we get to join in the slaughter of all humanity that is still living who has not been 'born again'. Few people really understand the depth of arrogance and hate that is being pounded into the minds of millions who had the sad fate to be born into this culture, or cult as I prefer to call it. All one needs to do is take a look at such charlatans as Hagee, Robertson, Graham, LaHaye and every other con teaching this doctrine of hate to get a clear picture just how dangerous it is.  The only difference between Christianity and Islam is the former is 600 years older. Christians slaughtered millions that refused to 'believe' and though the church does not physically kill today, they put the judgment of eternal torment on any who will not bow. What a shame to live in such a vicious ignorant world.
Wings 2008-03-11, 02:50
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Subject: God's Chosen People.
People who Beleive they are loved more by our Creator because they are born to a certain Tribe or have accepted a set of beliefs (those Bible facts) have the correct diet or are in some way Superior to the rest of mankind JUST tend to p██s people off...
I once gave a glass of water and a cigarette to a junky shivering in a doorway...when he looked up and our eyes locked I saw and felt Jesus...that was Living water...that's why I struggle with all this and don't just get stoned and worship trees.
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scooper 2007-04-29, 22:24
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Anoetos,
I think we are agreed about Orthodoxy, mostly. Heck, many of my own beliefs are orthodox, even if I have an unorthodox way of stating them. Where the Orthodox differ from the Fundamentalists is that the Orthodox are trying to set an example, to be a priestly people as it were. So they try to make their churches priestly as well. They are not trying to make priestly people of everyone else, and especially not against their will. The Fundamentalists, on the other hand, have a strong tendency to try to force their beliefs on the rest of society, or at least to force society to make visible accomodation (submission?) to their beliefs. They are not content to "let your light so shine among men," rather they feel compelled to burn the rest of us alive that we might also be luminous.
Because there is more to Religion than pleasing your Imaginary Friend.
Anoetos 2007-04-29, 07:21
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If what you're talking about is the character of fundamentalism then I am in certain agreement with you but I would suggest that this character flows from something which is not itself a Bad Thing but which, in the wrong hands gets perverted.

You mention Orthodoxy and that's what I am talking about. There is nothing wrong with knowing the truth even when that truth is exclusive of other, competing claims. There isn't even anything wrong with not only knowing but speaking the truth in the free market of ideas and there isn't even anything wrong with taking a stand on disputed matters.

The Orthodox have always been very good at this. Fundamentalists not so much.

But even as I say this a thought occurs to me:

The Orthodox tend to generate ecclesial documents legalizing their opinions when they can get a Pope or a group of bishops to ratify them. How is this any better than what Fundamentalists do on an individual or congregational level?

And if you'll say that they aren't Orthodox, then I have to ask, well, who on earth is?
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scooper 2006-04-28, 23:02
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Subject: What is Fundamentalism?
First, let's get one thing straight. Fundamentalism is not ancient. It is a modern reaction by various believers, who think themselves orthodox, to protect their orthodoxy from encroachment by modernity. For example, American Protestant Fundamentalism began in earnest with the publication of a series of pamphlets called The Fundamentals in 1917.

As such, Fundamentalism insists on rejection of the times in which it is set. When that is as far as it goes, Fundamentalism must live with its own internal conflict, but it leaves the rest of us in peace. All too often, however Fundamentalists externalize their inner conflict -- they demand that the rest of us resolve their conflict between their beliefs and the evidence of modernity by joining with them (or submitting to them) in rejecting that evidence.

And when they do that, they engage in what Karen Armstrong calls "The Battle for God," in her book by that title. The battle can be a war of words and ballots -- one thinks of the struggles to teach Creationism in Kansas, for example -- or it can involve physical intimidation, murder, and terrorism -- from bombing abortion clinics to the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Militant, violent Fundamentalism is deeply narcissistic -- the rest of us are made to pay for the Fundamentalist's problems. It is also deeply idolatrous -- God is remade (via selective literalism in interpreting scriptures) to suit the Fundamentalist's mental (graven) Image. The Fundamentalist's obsession with attempting to please -- or getting his/her society to please -- this Image drives the Fundamentalist's inner rage, and tendency to external violence.

This is different from Orthodoxy. The Orthodox can be at peace. The Fundamentalist is fundamentally at war, both with reality and with the rest of us.
Because there is more to Religion than pleasing your Imaginary Friend.
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